Stop giving the animal sacrifice

[RAAZ]

someone mentioned above that they are butchers to do such work, i believe there is only a few guys in dakhshinkali who does the sacrifycing. that's their job, different cultures but virtually the same job. they are holy butchers so to speak.

DD, I donot comment to what you say. Every person has his different view. But I would like to correct the above statement. Actually, on festivals people themselves do the sacrifice, not the butchers. About the people in Dakchinkali you said, they are just there to make some money. If you donot have enough manpower or for comfort you can hire them to make the sacrifice.

Believe me, I myself have once participated in it. It feels horrible. I was holding the goat with one another man and there was my brother slaughtering the goat. It is far terrible than it looks to be. After that, I never participated in that ritual. I really felt terrible.

[Khushboo]

Well! We are not forcing anyone to leave the tradition but here we are talking about the wrong aspect of this sacrifice. Even my family give sacrifice every year & during the "holy thread" ritiual of my brother, my family gave the sacrifice of 10 goats at once & that was really painful.

If we talk about the past, there was the tradition of "SATI", even that was our tradition, but we abolished that. Why???

Hey DD, that was our tradition & was also associated with the faith but why did we abolish that? At the beginning, only 1 or 2 people thought that was wrong, slowly 10 people thought this is wrong & then after certain period of time most of the people thought this to be wrong & so finally this was abolished.

DD even you are saying that this is not absolutely the right thing but then this is our tradition. We can't simply follow the tradition blindly if its wrong.

there are lots of people (mainly women) who are depressed and have no where to turn but to god and that is probably one way coming at peace with themselves

If any people is depressed then there are thousands of ways to get peace of mind not just by giving sacrifice. Go & serve the needy people & by helping others definitely going to get great peace of mind. By taking life of someone how can someone get peace of mind???

I am a non-veg & definitely will continuing eating non-veg foods but I am strictly against this tradition.

I think if we, the new generation think this is really a wrong practice then definitely this tradition of giving sacrifice can be abolished during our period though currently not possible.

This is my personal views & I don't want to hurt anyone sentiments regarding the tradition & if I had hurt someone then "Sorry". But I am strictly against this tradition.

[demon_dissector]

yeah you're right in festivals, you have to do it yourself or get someone else to do it. but in dakshinkali, i know there are paid people, so it;s their profession...hence butchers...joke.

You mentioned that other charitable work can be done inorder to feel good, yes that's true and i agree, but I'm saying that could be one of the reasons behind sacrificying an animal - whether right or wrong - it gives the person some sort of inner peace. I dont agree with such doing, but that's an individual's choice.

And I agree that traditions shouldn't be followed blindly but it's just the way it is. People in nepal can't be penalised for doing something that has been done for generations. Things will move forward as people gain more knowledge, but at this moment in time, if we look at the big picture, a lot of nepali people dont have the concept of animal sufferings and seek various alternative ways of self-satisfaction.

and with the sati thing...you can't put humans and animals in the same category, how is that the same thing, because it's 'sacrificing'. that's another debate altogether, not at all related to animal sacrificing, the woman does a slow painful death as she burns into ashes, whereas the animal doesnt suffer in comparison, the life is just taken.

[demon_dissector]

what are the other ways of killing an animal in nepal for food consumption? how does the butcher in nepal kill animal everyday? isn't it the same process, still get a knife/khukuri/axe to shop the head off...the only difference is it's dasai and the blood is sprayed all over the gods. so if sacrificing an animal is animal cruelty and suffering, then what about the rest of the days of years...is it ok during then?? i can understand it from mentioned village point of view -- the whole village has become vegetarians cause they dont believe in the 'no violence' approach. but all the people here moaning sacrificing an animal is wrong and yet they eat the meat from the animal that has been butchered in the same way...!

Khusboo, from the fact you posted this topic about a 'non-violence village going vegetarian' and you ended with a 'be a human not a muderer' suggests you're anti the way the animal is killed as supposed to the principle behind the sacrifice, which is what i'm opposed to. i dont see how sacrificing an animal can bring health/ wealth/ good fortune, but i can see why why it is done. I dont see how you can be 'strictly against the tradition' and feel that the way of slaughtering is animal cruelty and still say you're a non-veg. So the only solution for u is to be a vegetarian, the only way the of eating meat in nepal is if the animal is killed in the way it's shown in those pictures...

[Khushboo]

May be I started this topic in other way but it ended to be something else.

Hey but I want to make one thing clear that I haven't compared the butcher with the sacrifice. I mean to say that when the butcher kill the animal, this is their business & they are doing this to make an earning & they are not making any excuses. But when we are giving sacrifice then our ultimate aim is to eat the flesh but instead we invole the name of God & say we are doing this for GOD after doing this God will become happy & all those things, we are just making excuses. This is our tradition but the tradition is also made by the people only & if any tradition is wrong, we people have to change this too.

My family has got great faith in God & my Mom she can't tolerate anything which is told against the religion or tradition.

When I talked about the sacrifice with my mom, she got so angry with me & told to shut my mouth. She asked me why are you against the sacrifice? Everyone knows its bad to kill someone but as I am non-veg, she asked me to be vegetarian & then talk about such thing. There was great argument with my mom & now finally I have decided that I am going to be vegetarian.

May be God wanted me to be vegetarian & so all this discussion was done here. Hope now God will give me the strength so that I can stick to my decision. I was a great carnivorous animal & everyday in my food I used to have non-veg items but hope I will be successful in becoming a herbivorous animal.

Thanx DD for your suggestion to be veg. & for all the discussion.

[Walrus]

Khusboo,

This is a good topic U started and it led to a decision that you were thinking for such a long time so must have been good.

I respect your decision to be a veggie; it is such a tough decision for those who have been non-veg and whose mouth water when they hear of MoMos, Mashu-bhat, and chuwela-baji.

Sacrificing animals in the name of God has been tradition for long and if U think how it must have started then U will realise that some nut head was able to convince people that God needs blood to keep themselves quiet and then started the rituals of sacrifice and we have enough evidence to believe that it used to be human sacrifice not animals sacrifice when it started.

With time people realised that is wrong. To kill some one innocent in the name of God is wrong and instead of totally banishing the ritual that would have given a sort of cultural shock, it was gradually replaced by more acceptable animal sacrifice.

U r right, it is totally wrong to take life of some thing whom we cannot give life back. But just think isn't it being too impractical?

We are not God to be able to reverse everything that we do. Take things U do from morning to night and see how many can U undo. Very less.

God exists or not and what he wants us to do and what he does not want us to do is another discussion that will have no end. U accept God exists and that's why U say that God won't want us to sacrifice some innocent animal in His name. But, if God really thinks so then do U think we would be able to do so? Whatever we do is according to his will and we have no power to do anything against that. But, U will not accept this as a point of discussion here.

We have religion for some reason we ourself do not know. It causes so much chaos in otherwise peaceful world we all know but stil we have a religion and we cannot understand each and every rituals.

Religions itself is not necessary for the same reason animal sacrifices are not necessary. So, instead of being just a veg, why don't U give up ur religion itself. Don't ask me the question back because I have not thought of being a veg because I do not accept some aspect of my religion.

10 sacrifices for 'holy thread' raised my eye brows. I was wondering many thing with that. We still have so much resources to do such kind of things while we are living in a failing nation. This is just an example. There are so many things that happen around us that makes me believe our nation is still prosperous; like every inch of roads are packed with bikes and cars while all we need inside KTM are cute little bicycles. Another question that popped up was when it was my holy thread ceremony, they said in holy thread ceremony it is 'chokho' and there should be no animal sacrifices and we had a good veg function though I am a chetteri. So, sacrifices in holy thread ceremony didn't sound right. After all holy thread ceremony is supposed to be a ritual when boys become 'jogi' and meat should have no place there.

I was one of the first to comment here and I am sure no one really understood what I had said.

If U r so much against killing and not taking life of others then why do U kill insects? Why kill germs? Why plants? Else, tell me they do not have life. Does living thing mean walking, sleeping thing?

Ur mother cannot tolerate anything against tradition and religion and that's her way of thinking. U being a student of science should have logic behind such decision not just hatred.

Killing anything is not good. U know that and so many of us do but just turn the pages of news paper and U see even shameful news where one person is killing another for just some cheap motive - not for money, not for land but for some idiot ideology. U being veg will not change a single thing anywhere and it will neither bring peace to your mind. You are not doing anything significant there. You have much more potential to change things. Hope U spend your effort on those side rather than in settling the conflict of being a vegetarian or not being a vegetarian.

Killing for meat is not wrong. Not at all. If people stop eating chicken, chicken will go extinct. It is us who are saving the species.

We use millions of animals for research and there are many illogical voices against them saying that is against animal rights. I do not have to tell a medical student why we need to do animal researches even though those monkeys, guinea pigs, mice, pigs, etc suffer so much and are deliberately harmed.

U must be fond of nice looking good breeds of dogs and may be even cats but behind getting a good breed of one animal, there is a long story of killing and suffering.

Anyway, welcome to the world of vegetarian though the Gods you believe are themselves not vegetarian.

Finally, work for betterment of our species than worry about such practices that are already on their way out. Even if we kill all the goats in the world and goats become extinct also, there will be no ecological imbalance.

If U change ur mind to become a non-veg then let us know. May be we can have momos in KMC's canteen.

[demon_dissector]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Khusboo,
This is a good topic U started and it led to a decision that you were thinking for such a long time so must have been good.

I respect your decision to be a veggie; it is such a tough decision for those who have been non-veg and whose mouth water when they hear of MoMos, Mashu-bhat, and chuwela-baji.

let me correct you...she's a 'non-veg'...which is why what she has said is so contradictory...

Originally Posted by khusboo

May be I started this topic in other way but it ended to be something else.

Hey but I want to make one thing clear that I haven't compared the butcher with the sacrifice. I mean to say that when the butcher kill the animal, this is their business & they are doing this to make an earning & they are not making any excuses. But when we are giving sacrifice then our ultimate aim is to eat the flesh but instead we invole the name of God & say we are doing this for GOD after doing this God will become happy & all those things, we are just making excuses. This is our tradition but the tradition is also made by the people only & if any tradition is wrong, we people have to change this too.

Khusboo, I'm glad you've differentiated between the principles behind sacrificing and the actual act of killing...

I don't think I agree with what you're saying. people are sacrificing animals as a way of pleasing god...it's more of a reason. The butchers don't sacrifice, they kill, that's their reason, they aren't making excuses that they are killing animals for the sake of god. Whereas normal people don't need to make excuses to justify/validate their doing because they don't see it as it being a wrong doing. It's not wrong in their eyes, therefore they don't need to make excuses.

Keep us updated about your path towards vegetarianism...hopefully it's not some empty words for the sake of this topic

[Walrus]

Originally Posted by demon_dissector

let me correct you...she's a 'non-veg'...which is why what she has said is so contradictory...

Thank U for correcting me but if U read Khusboo's post, you will need not correct me.

'Eating meat' and 'killing animal' are 2 different things and those who eat need not like the way animals are killed.

Animals can be killed in more ethical ways to get the meat.

So, even if she is a non-veg and speaks against animal sacrifices, I will not oppose. We are discussing about way of killing not eating and not eating meat.

[demon_dissector]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Thank U for correcting me but if U read Khusboo's post, you will need not correct me.

'Eating meat' and 'killing animal' are 2 different things and those who eat need not like the way animals are killed.

Animals can be killed in more ethical ways to get the meat.

So, even if she is a non-veg and speaks against animal sacrifices, I will not oppose. We are discussing about way of killing not eating and not eating meat.

you're right, you dont have to like the way the animal is killed inorder to appreciate a good chicken curry. however, there are better ways of doing it. i believe most animals here are initially electricuted, so it's an instant death. The initiating post to this thread is about anti-violence and vegetarianism, therefore we are discussing the act of killing and eating/not eating meat.

[Khushboo]

I tried to be a vegetarian but I think its really a tough job. I am too much fond of non-veg food & I don't think I can be vegetarian. When I told my friends about it, they simply laughed at me & they told lets see till how long you'll be veg. I haven't eaten non-veg since 4 days & 2day I was tempted a lot to have non-veg food.

I don't know what happened when I saw the sacrifice ritual though I have seen a lot of sacrifices since my childhood. This things happen every year with me & every year I say that I'll be veg. But I think, I can't stick to my decision of being Veg & 2moro really going to enjoy the chicken chillies, kababs,etc....

Hey Walrus, I have changed my mind & I would love to have momos but not in the KMC cateen, somewhere else as canteen's momo is not so tasty....