Support growing for US-style unis in AUS

[Rajiv]

ANOTHER top university has declared it would like to transform itself into a user-pays US-style institution.

In a push from the major universities for the Howard Government to further deregulate the tertiary sector, the vice-chancellors of Queensland and Monash universities yesterday welcomed Melbourne's plan for a radical shift to a two-tiered degree system.
Queensland's John Hay said: "I actually prefer the American system where they have a general first degree and then do specialist degrees or professional degrees at graduate entry.
"I would eventually go down that line if I could, but ... it might take a very long time." The vice-chancellor of Monash, Richard Larkins, said it would not follow Melbourne's plan "in a big way", but similar strategies were in place.


We do have some options along those lines with law, and we're certainly keen to start a graduate entry program in medicine at our Gippsland campus," he said.

Melbourne University's proposal would see students there complete a three-year general degree, such as arts or science, before specialising in a professional graduate program such as law or medicine.
The move has angered student groups, which say it would result in the full privatisation of Australian higher education.
"This is a cunning way of forcing any student wanting to obtain specialist skills and knowledge into a full-fee-paying place," said David McDonald from Melbourne University's student union.
Federal Labor spokeswoman on education Jenny Macklin also criticised the Melbourne plan.
"Further Americanisation of our university sector will put a decent and quality higher education out of the reach of many Australians," she said.
But Professor Larkins said the plan was more "a continuation of the process of diversification of our system -- which in itself is a good thing".
This is a path Queensland started on six years ago when it made its specialist courses available at undergraduate and graduate levels, vice-chancellor John Hay said.
"People like me have been saying for almost two decades now that the American system is the better model," he said.
"Let us move down that line. But the reality is that it has to be done in stages.
Queensland University also supported Melbourne's call for the federal Government's loan scheme to be extended to keep up with the shift to fee-paying postgraduate courses.
"The amount of money available through Fee-Help is only $50,000, so we would look to see more help in that direction," Professor Hay said.
He would rather pursue the US system to provide students with a "wider, broader education", he said, but it would require a radical change in the funding structure of higher education.
And Professor Hay backed Melbourne University's call to set its own fees and for a lifting of the current 35 per cent cap on full-fee-paying domestic students.
Federal Education Minister Brendan Nelson said he would consider Melbourne University's call for the cap on domestic full-fee paying students to be lifted. "But under no circumstances at the expense of Australian government-funded places in Victorian universities," he said.

Source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E12332,00.html


Hmm, I personally think such reform may result in student migration to foreign country. AZU, how is the student's reaction there?

[azureskye33]

Great article MH,

well lets start with sydney uni. we are the full fee paying international students. our class is capped at $35,000 per year tuition. the years after us arent so lucky. then, there are the local HECS (higher education) fee paying students who paying about $6500/year. however the demand for doctors is ever so. as such the australian med schools are increasing the number of spots to fill this void. to do that, they are also introducing spots for local full fee paying students from this year.

there are about 12 or 13 medical schools in the whole of Aust., a country of 20 million population and the size that equal to or bigger than the USA. and the admission is cut throat as everywhere else. there are some medical programs where students attend medical school right after high school.

however the belief has shifted towards introducing post graduate education because this means that students already have some sort of degree; and most students have some sort of work, research, volunteer, life experiences making them viable, mature candidates, thus helping them to make better judgement and therefore better docs.

but stduents dont agree on introducing full fee paying local students. they mostly believe that this will commercialize education; on the other hand, this will also reduce chances of full fee paying international students from getting admissions. of course this is a hotly debated topic.

migration to foreign country for medical eduation is no new issue; however foreign medical degree isnt something that is looked upon that lightly. after all, the institutions here and the graduates value their own system. of course money is money and people will whinge and bitch about the large sum. but when push comes to shove, they will go for the full fee paying education. not to sound egocentric but most people who are doing medicine seem to come from financially stable families. and for others, there are scholarships.

the US has been doing this for god knows how long. the brilliont ones will obviously get great scholarships; the lucky ones have affluent families and for the rest, there is dear old uncle sam, signing your loan cheques. at the end, it works out for all. all that matters is how bad you wanna be a doctor.
and the loans, most of my american peers who did medicine in US will pay it off in a few years. i guess it isnt surprising that doctors are compensated so well in US. I m sure part of it is to help the docs help get out of med school debt. and it sure is a fine system.

[Rajiv]

there are the local HECS (higher education) fee paying students who paying about $6500/year

You mean that the locals have been paying 6500$$ a year (obviously AUS Dollar right?), and the Int'ls ca 35000$$ ? U la la!

helping them to make better judgement and therefore better docs.

I have always been asking myself why the US has kinda post graduation medical edu system. Do you personally think that it really helps in the praxis? Graduation in natural sciences is for me a strong base for research oriented medical education. I guess 30 % of medical students really go in pure research field. So If it is about to produce better doctors I would rather prefer more clinical experiences than natural sciences.

Question is 4 years of natural science is better or some more clinicals instead. Besides do u feel that US doctors with their xtra knowledge on general science are better than those without in AUS or UK? Whereas I must mention that the US "medical-medication error" is top among developed countries. (just remembered-not really meant for this Issue)

[azureskye33]

thats right about the tuition. Aussie dollars. [MBBS mero bauko balayeti pound swaha bhannu parla ] even aussie residents dont qualify for the local tuition; only aust. citizens.

look, medical students do their undergrad in many fields like art, history, law, music, to name a few. my class is very diverse; we have lawyers, dentists, phds, engineers, opera singers, maybe i wasnt clear to make this point. its the maturity of people the admission peopl look into. sure an 18 year old isnt the same as a mere 22 year collgege graduate or for that matter, a 32 year old lawyer. however you are right, graduation in biomed sciences does help with researches; and it is easier to grasp ideas but it is also a trend noticed that the non science background students are more hard working of the bunch. and they are exceptional in other ways.

look, personally i think the first degree doesnt really matter as much; its what you do with it and how you used it to come to where you are and how you can contribute you experiences to better the field of medicine. [dont get me wrong - there are quite a few people to whom maturity and responsibity are just as foreign as timbukhtu]